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Title:10 Supposed extinction proof texts refuted!
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Body:10 Extinction proof texts refuted! (or properly explained)

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Neo-Sadducees twist these 10 Texts in a vain attempt to teach that man has no conscious existence after death Click to View Supposed extinction proof texts refuted! Click to View These 10 ABUSED texts are MISUSED used by Neo-Sadducees: Jehovah's Witnesses (Jw's), Christadelphians, Seventh-day Adventists (SDA), Herbert W. Armstrong and his many splinter groups (formerly WCG). Click to View Positive Bible proof that man consciously survives death

These 10 ABUSED texts do not prove there is no consciousness after we die!

Abused Text #1

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Jn 3:13 says, "And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of Man."

Click to View Positive Bible proof that man consciously survives death

Click to View False argument stated: "No man, up to Christ's time, had ascended into heaven. this proves, so the false argument goes, that the dead are extinct!"

Click to View False argument refuted:

Yet Elijah had already ascended into heaven: 2 Ki 2:1 "the Lord was about to take up Elijah by a whirlwind to heaven" Obviously Neo-Sadducees have no idea what Jesus was actually saying!

Neo-Sadducees would do well to understand that there is a "spirit world" that includes: God (Eph 1:20), Good angels: (Eph 3:10), Devil and demons (Eph 6:12), Departed spirits of men (Eph 2:6).

What Jesus was saying is that no one ascended into the place in heaven that is in the direct presence of God. Jesus was the very first man to do this at his ascension. Up to the cross, no man who died was permitted into the presence of God, because sin had not actually been atoned for. But the dead were still in the "heavenly realm", just not in God's presence!

Abused Text #2

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Favorite Neo-Sadduceeian Text!

Eccl 9:3-10 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that there is one fate for all men. Furthermore, the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil, and insanity is in their hearts throughout their lives. Afterwards they go to the dead. For whoever is joined with all the living, there is hope; surely a live dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory [Hebrew: "zeker"] is forgotten. Indeed their love, their hate, and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun. Go then, eat your bread in happiness, and drink your wine with a cheerful heart; for God has already approved your works. Let your clothes be white all the time, and let not oil be lacking on your head. Enjoy life with the woman whom you love all the days of your fleeting life which He has given to you under the sun; for this is your reward in life, and in your toil in which you have labored under the sun. Whatever your hand finds to do, verily, do it with all your might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol where you are going.

Click to View Positive Bible proof that man consciously survives death

Click to View False argument stated: "The dead cease to exist and are unconscious. Their brain ceases to function and all memory in their brain is lost!"

Click to View False interpretation of Eccl 9:3-10

Eccl 9:3-10 says...

Neo-Sadducees interpret...

"the dead do not know anything"

The dead cease to exist and are unconscious

"for their memory is forgotten"

Their brain ceases to function and all memory in their brain is lost!

BUT...

The Eccl 9:3-10 also says...

Does this mean...

"that there is one fate for all men"

All are saved? All are lost?

"nor have they any longer a reward"

No hope of eternal reward? I thought you told me that God retained their memory on a floppy disk for the day of resurrection?

Click to View False argument refuted:

Eccl 9:3-10

New American Standard Translation of Eccl 9:5

"the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything"

This is the correct rendering of the original language!

New world Translation of Eccl 9:5 (a sectarian perversion used only by Jw's)

"the living are conscious (Heb: yada) that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious (Heb: yada) of nothing at all."

The Hebrew word "yada" meaning "to know" is deliberately mistranslated "conscious" by Jehovah's Witnesses to deceive the public

"yada" is never translated "conscious" anywhere in the following major translations: KJV, NASV, NIV, RSV, NKJV

Click here to learn more about the corruption in the New World Translation.

Click to View Proper interpretation of Eccl 9:3-10

that there is one fate for all men.

From a human perspective... under the sun ...all men and animals physically die.

For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust. Eccl 3:19-20

"nor have they any longer a reward"

From a human perspective... under the sun ... no one takes U-Haul when they die.

"Go then, eat your bread in happiness... Let your clothes be white all the time, and let not oil be lacking on your head. Enjoy life with the woman whom you love... for this is your reward in life ... under the sun." Eccl 9:7-9

"all the fruit of my labor for which I had labored under the sun, for I must leave it to the man who will come after me" Eccl 2:18

His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts (plans) perish. Ps 146:4

"for their memory is forgotten"

From a human perspective... under the sun ... the dead are forgotten by the living.

There is no remembrance of earlier ...or later things which will occur, There will be for them no remembrance Among those who will come later still. Eccl 1:11

For there is no lasting remembrance of the wise man as with the fool, inasmuch as in the coming days all will be forgotten. Eccl 2:16

those who used to go in and out from the holy place ...are soon forgotten in the city where they did thus. Eccl 8:10

"the dead do not know anything"

The Departed Spirit doesn't have a magic mirror on those living under the sun!

"You destroy man's hope. "you forever overpower him and he departs; You change his appearance and send him away. "His sons achieve honor, but he does not know it; Or they become insignificant, but he does not perceive it. "But his body pains him, And he mourns only for himself." Job 14:19-22

Ps 39:6 "Surely every man walks about as a phantom; Surely they make an uproar for nothing; He amasses riches, and does not know who will gather them.

"there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol"

The dead are in a state of waiting where they are no longer building and planning.

This verse is very simple to understand. Many have the false notion that the dead are living in their own little world of activity. This verse, and many others, clearly prove that the dead wait.

This verse says the opposite of what Neo-Sadducees affirm. They say the dead don't exist. This verse says they exist, but are in a state of waiting.

Click to View More on: Eccl 9:5 "for their memory [zeker] is forgotten."

The expression, "for their memory [Hebrew: "zeker"] is forgotten" is parallel to Ps 6:5. The meaning is that the dead are both forgotten by the living and even God!

Exodus 17:14 Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write this in a book as a memorial, and recite it to Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the memory [Hebrew: "zeker"] of Amalek from under heaven."

Deuteronomy 25:19 "Therefore it shall come about when the Lord your God has given you rest from all your surrounding enemies, in the land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance to possess, you shall blot out the memory [Hebrew: "zeker"] of Amalek from under heaven; you must not forget.

Deuteronomy 32:26 'I would have said, "I will cut them to pieces, I will remove the memory [Hebrew: "zeker"] of them from men,"

Job 18:17 "Memory [Hebrew: "zeker"] of him perishes from the earth, And he has no name abroad.

Psalm 6:5 For there is no memory [Hebrew: "zeker"] of Thee in death; In Sheol who will give Thee thanks?

Psalm 34:16 The face of the Lord is against evildoers, To cut off the memory[Hebrew: "zeker"] of them from the earth.

Psalm 109:15 Let them be before the Lord continually, That He may cut off their memory [Hebrew: "zeker"] from the earth;

Proverbs 10:7 The memory [Hebrew: "zeker"] of the righteous is blessed, But the name of the wicked will rot.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory[Hebrew: "zeker"] is forgotten.

Isaiah 26:14 The dead will not live, the departed spirits will not rise; Therefore Thou hast punished and destroyed them, And Thou hast wiped out all remembrance [Hebrew: "zeker"] of them.

Conclusion: Correct view of Eccl 9:5

The memory of them forgotten: The dead are both forgotten by the living!

The "dead know nothing" (NWT: "conscious of nothing") means that the dead are not permitted by God to know what happens on the earth after they die. This also effectively refutes the common idea of Ghosts haunting the living.

Abused Text #3

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Job 17:11-16 "My days are past, my plans are torn apart, Even the wishes of my heart. "They make night into day, saying, 'The light is near,' in the presence of darkness. "If I look for Sheol as my home, I make my bed in the darkness; If I call to the pit, 'You are my father'; To the worm, 'my mother and my sister'; Where now is my hope? And who regards my hope? "Will it [hope] go down with me to Sheol? Shall we together go down into the dust?"

Click to View Positive Bible proof that man consciously survives death

Click to View False argument stated: "Job is plainly stating that when we die we cease to have the ability to even have hope, since we enter a state of unconscious non-existence."

Click to View False argument refuted:

Here Job states that he will not take his hope with him to Sheol. But what hope is this? Hope of resurrection? Hope of being saved? Eternal hope? No! hope of life on the planet!

Job 14:19-22 is parallel thought! "So Thou dost destroy man's hope. "Thou dost forever overpower him and he departs;[dies] Thou dost change his appearance and send him away [dies]. "His sons achieve honor, but he does not know it; Or they become insignificant, but he does not perceive it. "But his body pains him, And he mourns only for himself." Notice that Job pictures the dead as being conscious, but unable to know what happens under the son. This is exactly what Eccl 9:5 says. Further, notice that the dead are "paining and mourning for self."

This verse says the same thing as: Ps 6:5, Job 17:11-16, Ps 30:9; Ps. 88:3-6,10-14; Psalm 115:17; Isa 38:10-11;17-19. All these verses are looking at death from a human point of view of the contrast between a living body and a dead body.

Notice the parallel between Job 17:11-16 and Job 14:19-22, but notice that Job 14 is a powerful proof text for conscious life after death!

Job 17:11-16: Will it [hope] go down with me to Sheol

Job 14:19-22 So Thou dost destroy man's hope ... But his body pains him, And he mourns only for himself

Abused Text #4

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Ps 6:5 "For there is no mention [Hebrew: "zeker"] of Thee in death; In Sheol who will give Thee thanks?"

Click to View Positive Bible proof that man consciously survives death

Click to View False argument stated: "This verse plainly states that we cannot remember or even mention God's name or even thank God after we die because we are unconscious and no longer exist."

Click to View False argument refuted:

David is speaking merely from a human "under the son" point of view. Although he sheds tears now, his body will shed no tears in the grave. Sheol here means grave. This is poetry, not some detailed theological statement of the state of the dead.

Ps 30:9 contains the same idea: "What profit is there in my blood, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise Thee? Will it declare Thy faithfulness?" David is speaking of a live body vs. a dead body.

Notice that EVEN GOD forgets the dead! Ps. 88:3-6 "Forsaken among the dead, Like the slain who lie in the grave, Whom Thou dost remember no more, And they are cut off from Thy hand." Obviously then, this verse is speaking about God blessing a man while in the flesh. To be remembered of God is to be blessed of God. Hades is a place of waiting, not a place of activity.

This verse says the same thing as: Ps 6:5, Job 17:11-16, Ps 30:9; Ps. 88:3-6,10-14; Psalm 115:17; Isa 38:10-11;17-19. All these verses are looking at death from a human point of view of the contrast between a living body and a dead body.

Eccl 9:5 says "for their memory [Hebrew: "zeker"] is forgotten" see Eccl 9:5 that documents the use of the word "zeder". The meaning is that the dead are forgotten by the living!

Abused Text #5

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Isa 38:10-11;17-19 I am to enter the gates of Sheol; I am to be deprived of the rest of my years." I said, "I shall not see the Lord, The Lord in the land of the living; I shall look on man no more among the inhabitants of the world. ... It is Thou who hast kept my soul from the pit of corruption, For Thou hast cast all my sins behind Thy back. "For Sheol cannot thank Thee, Death cannot praise Thee; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Thy faithfulness. "It is the living who give thanks to Thee, as I do today

Click to View Positive Bible proof that man consciously survives death

Click to View False argument stated: "The dead don't exist consciously and that is why they cannot thank or praise or hope."

Click to View False argument refuted:

The verse is simply affirming that from a human point of view, a dead body does not praise God. How ridiculous to suggest this poetic verse was intended to give a detailed doctrinal roadmap of the state of the dead.

This verse says the same thing as: Ps 6:5, Job 17:11-16, Ps 30:9; Ps. 88:3-6,10-14; Psalm 115:17; Isa 38:10-11;17-19. All these verses are looking at death from a human point of view of the contrast between a living body and a dead body.

Notice that EVEN GOD forgets the dead! Ps. 88:3-6 "Forsaken among the dead, Like the slain who lie in the grave, Whom Thou dost remember no more, And they are cut off from Thy hand." Obviously then, this verse is speaking about God blessing a man while in the flesh. To be remembered of God is to be blessed of God. Hades is a place of waiting, not a place of activity. When we die, God ceases to do things for us, like when we were alive. We must await judgement and resurrection.

Perhaps another key to understanding this verse is the use of the word PIT! The pit is only where the wicked go. They are without hope and cannot rely upon God.

Click to View Why do only the wicked dead go to the pit? [pit = Heb: bowr]

Ps 28:1,3 To Thee, O Lord, I call; My rock, do not be deaf to me, Lest, if Thou be silent to me, I become like those who go down to the pit. ... Do not drag me away with the wicked And with those who work iniquity

Isaiah 14:15 "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.

Psalm 88:4,6 I am reckoned among those who go down to the pit; I have become like a man without strength ... Thou hast put me in the lowest pit, In dark places, in the depths.

Isaiah 14:19 "But you have been cast out of your tomb Like a rejected branch, Clothed with the slain who are pierced with a sword, Who go down to the stones of the pit, Like a trampled corpse.

Isaiah 38:16-19 O restore me to health, and let me live! "Lo, for my own welfare I had great bitterness; It is Thou who hast kept my soul from the pit of destruction, For Thou hast cast all my sins behind Thy back. "For Sheol cannot thank Thee, Death cannot praise Thee; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Thy faithfulness. "It is the living who give thanks to Thee, as I do today. [Some misuse this verse to teach that man goes into extinction at death. They argue, "there is no hope or giving of thanks in the pit". We agree, the wicked have no hope and therefore only curse God.]

Ezekiel 26:20 then I shall bring you down with those who go down to the pit, to the people of old, and I shall make you dwell in the lower parts of the earth, like the ancient waste places, with those who go down to the pit, so that you will not be inhabited; but I shall set glory in the land of the living.

Ezekiel 31:14 in order that all the trees by the waters may not be exalted in their stature, nor set their top among the clouds, nor their well-watered mighty ones stand erect in their height. For they have all been given over to death, to the earth beneath, among the sons of men, with those who go down to the pit."

Ezekiel 31:16 "I made the nations quake at the sound of its fall when I made it go down to Sheol with those who go down to the pit; and all the well-watered trees of Eden, the choicest and best of Lebanon, were comforted in the earth beneath.

Ezek 32:18,21,23,24,25,29,30 "Son of man, wail for the multitude of Egypt, and bring it down, her and the daughters of the powerful nations, to the nether world, with those who go down to the pit ... 21 "The strong among the mighty ones shall speak of him and his helpers from the midst of Sheol, 'They have gone down, they lie still, the uncircumcised, slain by the sword.'

Jonah 2:2,6 "I called out of my distress to the Lord, And He answered me. I cried for help from the depth of Sheol; Thou didst hear my voice." ... "I descended to the roots of the mountains. The earth with its bars was around me forever, But Thou hast brought up my life from the pit. (Jonah was a disobedient prophet who was thrown into the pit symbolically.)

Abused Text #6

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Ps 30:9 "What profit is there in my blood, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise Thee? Will it declare Thy faithfulness?

Click to View Positive Bible proof that man consciously survives death

Click to View False argument stated: "It is impossible for the dead to praise God because they are unconscious and do not exist."

Click to View False argument refuted:

God was angry with David and he knew he was going to suffer the fate of the wicked (cast into the pit). Notice it does not say the blood goes down to the pit, but that the blood and body turn to dust while David is consciously in the pit. David is merely saying that a dead corpse cannot praise God. We agree! It says nothing about what David would do from the pit! Again, David does not want God to judge him and cast him into the PIT where only the wicked go! David is pleading for mercy!

The verse is simply affirming that from a human point of view, a dead body does not praise God. How ridiculous to suggest this poetic verse was intended to give a detailed doctrinal roadmap of the state of the dead. Neo-Sadducees make way too much of verses like this when there is a simple answer!

This verse says the same thing as: Ps 6:5, Job 17:11-16, Ps 30:9; Ps. 88:3-6,10-14; Psalm 115:17; Isa 38:10-11;17-19. All these verses are looking at death from a human point of view of the contrast between a living body and a dead body.

Perhaps another key to understanding this verse is the use of the word PIT! The pit is only where the wicked go. They are without hope and cannot rely upon God. click here for pit

Abused Text #7

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Ps. 88:3-6,10-14 For my soul has had enough troubles, And my life has drawn near to Sheol. I am reckoned among those who go down to the pit; I have become like a man without strength, Forsaken among the dead, Like the slain who lie in the grave, Whom Thou dost remember no more, And they are cut off from Thy hand. Thou hast put me in the lowest pit, In dark places, in the depths. ... Wilt Thou perform wonders for the dead? Will the departed spirits rise and praise Thee? Will Thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave, Thy faithfulness in Abaddon? Will Thy wonders be made known in the darkness? And Thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness? But I, O Lord, have cried out to Thee for help, And in the morning my prayer comes before Thee. O Lord, why dost Thou reject my soul? Why dost Thou hide Thy face from me?

Click to View Positive Bible proof that man consciously survives death

Click to View False argument stated: "The dead do not praise God, speak of God's faithfulness or lovingkindness. The realm of the dead is called the land of forgetfulness, indicating that the memory in the brains of the living are all lost and forgotten."

Click to View False argument refuted:

This is a Psalm when God was angry with man for his sin. v5. God has assigned the man to the pit. Remember only the wicked are sent to the pit, not the righteous.

Neo-Sadducees pick on the phrase, "land of forgetfulness" try to make this it say that the dead forget all their knowledge in their brains, a kind of amnesia that is metaphoric for extinction. But notice that the dead who are sent to the "land of forgetfulness" and are forgotten by God: "Thou dost remember no more". Does God literally forget who the dead are? No! In fact the whole context is limited to the wicked. This proves that this verse is not making a universal commentary on the state of the dead, for according to Neo-Sadducees, their state is identical!

There are many other passages that speak of the wicked being forgotten and forsaken by God after death and the righteous are remembered after death. This proves that these statements are not defining the realm of the dead as unconscious non-existence, but rather are poetic expressions. Prov 14:32 "The wicked is thrust down by his wrongdoing, But the righteous has a refuge when he dies." Prov 10:7 "The memory of the righteous is blessed, But the name of the wicked will rot."

Therefore the obvious truth is that the righteous dead are not forgotten by God, and only the wicked go to the pit!

This verse says the same thing as: Ps 6:5, Job 17:11-16, Ps 30:9; Ps. 88:3-6,10-14; Psalm 115:17; Isa 38:10-11;17-19. All these verses are looking at death from a human point of view of the contrast between a living body and a dead body.

Abused Text #8

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Psalm 115:17 "The dead do not praise the Lord, Nor do any who go down into silence"

Click to View Positive Bible proof that man consciously survives death

Click to View False argument stated: "It is impossible for the dead to praise God because they do not exist and are unconscious as 'go down into silence' indicates".

Click to View False argument refuted:

This Psalm is a contrast between the wicked who worship idols and the righteous who worship Jehovah.

This verse is saying that the wicked dead do not praise God, but the righteous dead do... the wicked dead go down into silence, but the righteous dead do not. This meaning is confirmed by these verses: 1 Sam 2:9 "He keeps the feet of His godly ones, But the wicked ones are silenced in darkness" and Ps 31:17 "Let me not be put to shame, O Lord, for I call upon Thee; Let the wicked be put to shame, let them be silent in Sheol." Therefore clear implication is that only the wicked are silenced in Sheol! It is a specific poetic symbolic penalty for the unrighteous and not a universal state of the dead. Notice again that the wicked are pictured as consciously existing, but are kept silent. All the while the righteous dead are not silent!

The verse may be simply affirming that from a human point of view, a dead body does not praise God. How ridiculous to suggest this poetic verse was intended to give a detailed doctrinal roadmap of the state of the dead.

Abused Text #9

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Isaiah 26:14 "The dead will not live, the departed spirits will not rise; Therefore Thou hast punished and destroyed them, And Thou hast wiped out all remembrance of them."

Click to View Positive Bible proof that man consciously survives death

Click to View False argument stated: "God had wiped our all the memory banks of the dead and has destroyed them. The dead don't exist, they are annihilated

Click to View False argument refuted:

The verse is simply saying that the wicked will not be remembered ON EARTH. They have no lasting memorial as the righteous do. click here to view more on remembrance.

The verse, according to Neo-Sadduceeian logic, also says there is no resurrection, for it says, "The dead will not live, the departed spirits will not rise". Some Neo-Sadducees, like Christadelphians, actually teach that the wicked dead will not be raised from the dead! We applaud their consistency (which Jw's and SDA's always lack) but feel that such a conclusion is wrong in light of Acts 24:15, "there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked"

Abused Text #10

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Ps 146:3-6 Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish. How blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob, Whose hope is in the Lord his God; Who made heaven and earth, The sea and all that is in them; Who keeps faith forever. Click to View Positive Bible proof that man consciously survives death

Click to View False argument stated: "At death, the memory inside of the brain of man perishes, the man ceases to exist and no longer has consciousness."

Click to View False argument refuted:

This Psalm is a contrast between trusting in flesh and trusting in God.

Whereas a dead man's plans, thoughts, designs, business arrangements are unavailable to the living (they "perish" from an "under the sun" point of view) God is always there (keeps faith forever)

The verse is simply affirming that from a human point of view, the dead are of no further help to life under the sun! How ridiculous to suggest this poetic verse was intended to give a detailed doctrinal roadmap of the state of the dead. This Psalm is not making a mechanical statement on the mental thought activity of the dead.

Neo-Sadducees pick on the phrase, "his thoughts perish" try to make this it say that the dead forget all their knowledge in their brains. Like turning off a computer before you save a document and lose all data. But notice that the dead said in other verses to be forgotten by God: "Thou dost remember no more". Ps 88:5. Does God literally forget who the dead are? Is God unable to remember the thoughts that the dead man had? No! The man is still conscious after he dies, but is unable to continue "building his dreams on earth".

His "great invention" is lost forever! Know one will ever know what it was! He, being a departed spirit still remembers his dreams and inventions, he is simply unable to carry them out or communicate them to the living! Men have all kinds of great plans for life under the sun. When they die nothing more is ever done!

The following verses are parallel and show that, "in that very day his thoughts perish" Ps 146, means that his plans are lost to the living! The dead are also unable to communicate with the living their plans!

Job 17:10 "My days are past, my plans are torn apart, Even the wishes of my heart. "They make night into day, saying, 'The light is near,' in the presence of darkness. "If I look for Sheol as my home, I make my bed in the darkness; If I call to the pit, 'You are my father'

James 4:13-14 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow, we shall go to such and such a city, and spend a year there and engage in business and make a profit." Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away.

Lk 12:16-21 "The land of a certain rich man was very productive. "And he began reasoning to himself, saying, 'What shall I do, since I have no place to store my crops?' "And he said, 'This is what I will do: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. 'And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry."' "But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?' "So is the man who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God."

Job 14:20-22 "Thou dost forever overpower him and he departs [dies]; Thou dost change his appearance and send him away. "His sons achieve honor, but he does not know it; Or they become insignificant, but he does not perceive it. "But his body pains him, And he mourns only for himself."

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, verily, do it with all your might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol where you are going.

Job 4:20-21 'Between morning and evening they are broken in pieces; Unobserved, they perish forever. 'Is not their tent-cord plucked up within them? They die, yet without wisdom.' (they die without the wisdom of knowing God while they lived: see Job 18:21; 36:12, this verse is not saying that their wisdom in their brain perishes after they die.)

Ps 39:6 "Surely every man walks about as a phantom; Surely they make an uproar for nothing; He amasses riches, and does not know who will gather them.

Job 14:1-15 "Man, who is born of woman, Is short-lived and full of turmoil. "Like a flower he comes forth and withers. He also flees like a shadow and does not remain. "Thou also dost open Thine eyes on him, And bring him into judgment with Thyself. "Who can make the clean out of the unclean? No one! "Since his days are determined, The number of his months is with Thee, And his limits Thou hast set so that he cannot pass. "Turn Thy gaze from him that he may rest, Until he fulfills his day like a hired man. "For there is hope for a tree, When it is cut down, that it will sprout again, And its shoots will not fail. "Though its roots grow old in the ground, And its stump dies in the dry soil, At the scent of water it will flourish And put forth sprigs like a plant. "But man dies and lies prostrate. Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens be no more, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep. "Oh that Thou wouldst hide me in Sheol, That Thou wouldst conceal me until Thy wrath returns to Thee, That Thou wouldst set a limit for me and remember me! "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait, Until my change comes. "Thou wilt call, and I will answer Thee;

Contrast between the state of the living and the dead

Text

Comment

Job 20:7-9 He perishes forever like his refuse; Those who have seen him will say, 'Where is he?' "He flies away like a dream, and they cannot find him; Even like a vision of the night he is chased away. "The eye which saw him sees him no more, And his place no longer beholds him. (see Job 8:18 "If he is removed from his place, Then it will deny him, saying, 'I never saw you.')

Job 4:19-21 'Between morning and evening they are broken in pieces; Unobserved, they perish forever. 'Is not their tent-cord plucked up within them? They die, yet without wisdom.'

Perishes forever? Does this mean there is no resurrection? Rather the man will never join humanity again or ever walk the earth just as Job 7:9-10 says: "When a cloud vanishes, it is gone, So he who goes down to Sheol does not come up. "He will not return again to his house, Nor will his place know him anymore.

Notice that humans see him no more, but the indication is that he still exists! "He flies away" to a place hidden from humans called sheol.

Abused Text Summary

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These 10 texts are misused by Neo-Sadducees to prove the dead cease to exist consciously. Their primary mistake is to not recognize the following differences that the Bible indicates for the state of the righteous dead and the wicked dead.

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Contrast between the state of the wicked and righteous dead:

The state of the dead is identical for righeous and wicked as taught by Neo-Sadducees: Jehovah's Witnesses (Jw's), Christadelphians, Seventh-day Adventists (SDA), Herbert W. Armstrong: Worldwide Church of God (WCG).

But the Bible clearly indicates that there is a huge difference in the state of the dead as seen by this summary chart below.

This chart proves that Neo-Sadducees are apostate false teachers who define the dead as unconscious and non-existent. Neo-Sadducees are false teachers who have no Bible data to support their false view.

The Bible clearly teaches that all the dead exist and that there are two opposite conditions for the righteous and wicked dead.

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Summary:

Righteous dead

Wicked dead

will not go to Sheol

will go to Sheol

comforted

tormented

at rest

no rest

enters into peace

no peace

blessed

cursed

never shaken

brought to destruction

remembered forever

Forgotten forever

memory blessed

memory rots

name remembered forever

blotted out name forever

won't be eaten by worms and is remembered

worm feeds sweetly till he is remembered no more

will have a posterity

posterity will be cut off

not silenced

silenced

not be put to shame

put to shame

refuge when he dies

thrust down when he dies

Detailed data:

Text

Righteous dead

Wicked dead

1 Sam 2:9

He keeps the feet of His godly ones (not silenced like wicked)

But the wicked ones are silenced in darkness

Is 14:9, 11, 15

"Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones. ... 'Your pomp and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol; Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you, And worms are your covering.' ... "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.

Isa 57:1

For the righteous man is taken away from evil, He enters into peace; They rest in their beds, Each one who walked in his upright way.

Job 3:17-22

And there the weary are at rest. "The prisoners are at ease together; They do not hear the voice of the taskmaster. "The small and the great are there, And the slave is free from his master. "Why is light given to him who suffers, And life to the bitter of soul; Who long for death, but there is none, And dig for it more than for hidden treasures; Who rejoice greatly, They exult when they find the grave?

"There the wicked cease from raging,

Job 21:13-14

"They spend their days in prosperity, And suddenly they go down to Sheol. "And they say to God, 'Depart from us! We do not even desire the knowledge of Thy ways.

Job 24:19-20

Drought and heat consume the snow waters, So does Sheol those who have sinned. "A mother will forget him; The worm feeds sweetly till he is remembered no more.

Job 30:22-23

"Thou dost lift me up to the wind and cause me to ride; And Thou dost dissolve me in a storm. "For I know that Thou wilt bring me to death And to the house of meeting for all living.

Job 33:18

He keeps back his soul from the pit, And his life from passing over into Sheol. [notice that according to Neo-Sadducees all men will end up in the pit and Sheol!]

Ps 9:5

Thou hast rebuked the nations; Thou hast destroyed the wicked; Thou hast blotted out their name forever and ever.

Prov 10:7

The memory of the righteous is blessed

But the name of the wicked will rot

Ps 9:17-19

For the needy will not always be forgotten, Nor the hope of the afflicted perish forever.

The wicked will turn to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God.

Ps 31:17

Let me not be put to shame, O Lord, for I call upon Thee;

Let the wicked be put to shame, let them be silent in Sheol.

Prov 14:32

But the righteous has a refuge when he dies

The wicked is thrust down by his wrongdoing

Prov 15:10,24

The path of life leads upward for the wise, That he may keep away from Sheol below. [notice that according to Neo-Sadducees all men will end up in the pit and Sheol!]

Stern discipline is for him who forsakes the way; He who hates reproof will die. Sheol and Abaddon lie open before the Lord,

Ps 37:35-38

Mark the blameless man, and behold the upright; For the man of peace will have a posterity. ...

I have seen a violent, wicked man spreading himself like a luxuriant tree in its native soil. Then he passed away, and lo, he was no more; I sought for him, but he could not be found. ... But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off.

Ps 55:22-23

He will never allow the righteous to be shaken.

But Thou, O God, wilt bring them down to the pit of destruction; Men of bloodshed and deceit will not live out half their days.

Ps 112:6

For he will never be shaken; The righteous will be remembered forever.

Lk 16:25

Lazarus comforted

Rich man tormented

Rev 14:13

'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."

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