REFUTED: Full-Preterist, “Realized Eschatology”, “AD 70 doctrine”
Today, Christians await the second coming of Christ:
1. The future second coming is the END
2. The dead will be raised immortal spirit bodies
3. The living will be changed into immortal spirit bodies
4. The physical universe will be “uncreated” into non-existence.
5. All men will stand before God in Judgement.
6. The wicked will be cast into the lake of fire with the Devil and his angels
7. The righteous will join God who creates a new heavens and earth
The “Bible Alone” Revelation Commentary: The easiest Bible book to understand!
The 5-minute beginner’s guide to totally understanding Revelation.
Original publication date: February 2018. This updated version date: February 2018
Author: Steven Rudd. Download free of charge at: www.bible.ca/revelation
1. Revelation written in AD 66
2. Flee Jerusalem or be destroyed in AD 70
3. The central synchronism is the Ezekiel’s account of the destruction of Jerusalem in 587 BC.
QUICK LINKS: Bible Only Revelation Commentary
Introduction: Partial-Preterist vs. Full-Preterist
1. All “Partial-Preterists” believe that Jesus and the Apostles (Mt 24; Lk 21:20, Mk 13) prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. while some say the book of Revelation was written in AD 96 and therefore describes the destruction of Rome.
2. All Partial-Preterists believe in the still future second coming and general resurrection of the dead.
3. Some Partial-Preterists date the book of Revelation to c. AD 66 and view Revelation as a warning to flee Jerusalem before it was destroyed in AD 70. Other Partial-Preterists date the book of Revelation to c. AD 96 and view Revelation as message of victory over Satan’s persecution when the city of Rome is destroyed.
1. “Full-Preterists” teach the “rapture/second coming occurred on 4th June AD 66 based upon Josephus’ 7th sign (Wars 6:296) and date the book of Revelation to c. AD 62. The idea that the second coming of Christ happened on 4th June AD 66, represents one of the most recent theological developments in the history of the church and is false.
2. Four fatal Chronological errors of Full-Preterism: Four interconnected chronological errors, when corrected, falsify the core foundations upon which Full-Preterism rests.
a. First chronological error: One of the most devastating errors in their eschatology, for reasons they will immediately understand, is the fact that Josephus’ 7th sign actually happened on Pentecost Sunday 2nd June AD 65. Full-Preterists wrongly date the 7th sign one year later to 4th June AD 66. This correction shifts their “rapture/second coming” one full year earlier, a time when even they admit Christians were still present on the earth and within 3 months of the writing of 2 Peter and Jude which according to their own chronologies were written in AD 64. (Strangely, the last two Bible books written, according to Full-Preterists, lack any “Lord is coming quickly” statements.)
b. Second chronological error: Full-Preterists wrongly dating the death of Christ to AD 30 instead of AD 33, which disconnects their “40 years-within this generation” eschatology. Preterists need the resurrection to be in AD 30 because AD 30-70 = 40 years. They also link the beginning of the ministry of Christ to the beginning of the First Jewish War (AD 66-74) as another 40-year period: AD 26-66 = 40 years. All that is now thrown out the window as fantasy.
c. Third chronological error: Full-Preterists misdate the death of Herod the Great to 4 BC instead of 1 BC. This would normally create a 3-4-year shift in Judean Governors, which would then causes a misdating of New Testament books. They are unaware of the problem these missing years have caused Biblical Chronology. The solution, if they were aware of the problem, is to back-date the governorships of Herod’s three sons to account for the missing years. While it is true they are following the “fudged numbers” of others, they have failed to solve the huge problem of the missing years, and are more than willing to ignore this massive problem. Here is a correct Chronology of Herod the Great, the birth of Christ and the Judean Governors.
d. Fourth chronological error. Perhaps the single-most self-destructive chronological error of Full-Preterists, is that they wrongly terminate the 490 years (70 weeks) of Daniel 9:24-29 in AD 70. The decree in Ezra 7 to rebuild Jerusalem counts exactly 490 solar years to the very day from 8th April 458 BC to 5th April AD 33. This correction devastates a second major eschatological foundation upon which Full-Preterists built their “70 AD doctrine” upon.
3. Jesus ben Ananus falsifies the Full-Preterist “second coming” doctrine of the rapture on 4th June AD 66 after which, all Christians from planet earth had vanished.
a. Josephus Wars 6:300-309 speaks of a man named Jesus ben Ananus who walked the streets of Jerusalem saying, “Woe, Woe, is Jerusalem” for 7 years and 5 months starting on the Feast of Booth (Sukkot) Thursday 7th October AD 62 until he was killed by a Jewish Ballista ball when Titus’ army arrived on Monday 7th March AD 70.
b. With the heavy reliance Full-Preterists make upon Josephus’ seven miraculous signs in the preceding paragraph of Wars 6:289-300, this is an irrefutable falsification from a reliable historical source THEY TRUST, that no Christians were “left behind” at the “Second Coming-Rapture”.
c. As noted above, Josephus’ 7th sign is chronologically corrected to 2nd June AD 65, but this makes no difference to the argument herein whether the 7th sign occurred in AD 65 or 66.
4. The hermeneutical approach (trick) of Full-Preterists is identical to that employed by the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
a. JW’s believe in a two-class hope-system for Christians where the first 144,000 get to go to heaven, but the rest (144,001 +) get stuck on planet earth forever in a restored garden paradise. This earth simply doesn’t make me do any dreaming. Heaven is described as abundantly beyond our wildest dreams or imaginations. While 2 weeks on a beautiful tropical island is paradise, eternity is marooned. Those living today, missed the big ticket of getting to go to heaven and must be content with second best.
b. Their supporting verse for this bizarre two-class hope system is “I have other sheep [eternity on earth], which are not of this fold [144,00 who go to heaven]; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd." (John 10:16) Such a view is so absurd, no comment is needed.
c. What you need to know, is that Jehovah’s Witnesses have tagged every New Testament verse as either applying to the THIS FLOCK or the OTHER SHEEP. Where they cannot explicitly find passages to describe the full duality of hope, they fabricate a fictional interpretation to make it appear true. This is exactly what Full-Preterists do.
d. In a classic example of “Domino Theology”, Jehovah’s Witnesses today have never eaten communion (the Lord’s Supper) because the passages have been tagged as applying ONLY to the 144,000 and not those who get marooned on planet earth. Full-Preterists are faced with the identical problem because the Lord’s supper was to be eaten “till Jesus second coming” and if they were consistent like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, they would never eat the Lord’s Supper either!
e. Another example of Domino Theology is the second coming, which JW’s still teach today, took place INVISIBLY in AD 1914 where all Old Testament saints and the Christian 144,000 were resurrected into heaven, leaving the rest to await a future time when they will live on paradise earth eternally picking fresh fruit from trees. Hurrah! In spite of the fact that scripture says there is no food or stomachs at the end of time: "Food is for the stomach and the stomach is for food, but God will do away with both of them." (1 Corinthians 6:13) When confronted with this passage, JW’s look up their “handy-dandy two-class bible verse decoder” which identifies this verse as applying only to the higher class 144,000 and does not apply to the low class “door knocker” who gets stuck on earth eating food in his stomach for his “spiritual body”.
i. “The beginning of the earthly phase of the Kingdom in the end of A.D. 1914 will, we understand, consist wholly of the resurrected holy ones of olden time-from John the Baptizer back to Abel-"Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all the holy prophets."” (JW publication: Studies In the Scriptures, IV, p625, 1897 AD)
ii. "That the deliverance of the saints [144,000] must take place some time before 1914 is manifest, since the deliverance of fleshly Israel, as we shall see, is appointed to take place at that time” (JW publication: Studies In the Scriptures, III, p228, 1891 AD)
f. But the key point for the Kingdom Hall worshippers, is that all the eschatological verses in the New Testament apply exclusively to the 144,000 and there is nothing left they can apply to what happens to the rest! All of 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4 speaks NOTHING about the resurrection of the “slave class”, so they must INFER that they get marooned on planet earth without the hope of living with God in heaven.
g. This same kind of problem exists with Full-Preterists! All the eschatological verses they quote refer exclusively to the “rapture” at the second coming, which occurred on 4th June AD 66. They must INFER what happens to the rest, like us living today!
h. Full-Preterists, therefore, mimic’s the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ hermeneutical trick of seeing dual meaning in passages that clearly were intended to apply to ALL Christians. For example, JW’s tag specifics Bible passages that promise ONLY the “governing class” of 144,000 go to heaven, but are then forced to infer, from the same verse, that the rest of the “slave class” (those knocking at your door) expects to spend eternity on paradise earth and will never go to heaven.
i. As you can see with Jehovah’s Witnesses, one false doctrine leads to the logical creation of a second false doctrine, then a third and before you know it… POOF! They have morphed into a FULL-PRETERISTS, who like JW’s teaches the resurrection of all Old Testament saints (and those alive before AD 70) and a DIFFERENT hope that DOES NOT include the second coming, for those living after AD 70! (Eph 4:4, there is one hope).
j. Full-Preterism, by definition, means that zero of the bible speaks about anything after AD 70 because 100% was fulfilled before. It is this lack of scripture to inform Christians living today, that is the biggest problem faced by Full-Preterists today. Their only solution is to use inference to support their “two class system”, instead of direct scripture.
5. Introductory Conclusion:
a. Full-Preterists are challenged therefore, to produce a list of scriptures that speak EXCLUSIVELY of a future hope for Christians living after AD 70. Nothing in the Bible speaks exclusively to those living after 4th June AD 66.
b. Years ago the author offered $10,000 for one Bible verse if any Seventh Day Adventist could provide in a verse in Genesis or the entire New Testament that commands the keeping of the weekly Sabbath. Perhaps a similar challenge needs to be offered to Full-Preterists to provide one bible verse that speaks of any promise, salvation, resurrection or hope of any Christian living after AD 70 that does not include those living before the “Second Coming” of 4th June AD 66. [Cricket sounds]
c. Full-Preterism, by definition, means that zero of the bible speaks about anything after AD 70 because 100% was fulfilled before.
d. So, the biggest problem with Full-Preterism, is not all the strange new doctrines. The elephant in the room is that nothing in the Bible is relevant to Christians living today, since it all was fulfilled in AD 70. Those living before AD 70 had direct bible passages for their hope, but for those living today all we have is inference and uncertainty without a single Bible text that speaks exclusively to OUR HOPE. Like the movie, Christians today, have been “Left Behind” with nothing.
e. Full-Preterism, therefore, divides Christians and every Bible verse into a two class system exactly like Jehovah’s Witnesses, except the details are different. Perhaps they should devote their next annual meeting to producing the “Full-Preterist Bible” where all the eschatological passages fulfilled in AD 70 are ripped out, leaving only those texts that speak to the salvation and future hope of Christians living today.
f. So I must reject Full-Preterism because I WANT MY WHOLE BIBLE BACK!
I. Full-Preterists believe the entire first century church went extinct in AD 66:
1. Full-Preterists believe the entire church the world over, went extinct on 4th June AD 66 when their carnal bodies were changed into spirit bodies and disappeared from earth and followed Christ back to heaven.
a. This means that immediately after the “second coming in AD 70” there were zero Christians left on the earth.
b. The extinct church started over from scratch by non-Christians who, with only a Bible, read the message and became Christians.
2. This view is explained in the words of a leading Full-Preterist and personal friend who was kind enough to explain:
a. “The gospel had been preached to countless tens of thousands, most of whom did not accept it before the Parousia. After AD 70, some of them believed and restarted the church. Plus they had the NT writings to guide them. The bodily change put them into the unseen realm with the resurrected dead. The gospel had been preached to countless tens of thousands, most of whom did not accept it before the Parousia. After AD 70, some of them believed and restarted the church. Plus, they had the NT writings to guide them. The seed had already been planted which would grow a new crop of Christians after the Parousia. That first generation of the church was the Bride of Christ. She was taken to heaven where the wedding feast occurred and the marriage was consummated. All subsequent generations of Christians after AD 70 are the offspring of that marriage made in heaven. That first generation was promised a special reward (resurrection and bodily change) in view of their endurance of the tribulation and persecution to get the gospel preached to the whole Roman world and Diaspora before the End of the Old Covenant arrived. They accomplished that great commission in the midst of unthinkable tribulation (Neronic persecution), and Christ rewarded them appropriately. The greater the sacrifice, the greater the reward. We American Christians today have no clue what their suffering was like. Nor do we deserve the kind of reward they received for "offering their bodies as a living sacrifice" (literally) to Christ. The bodily change of those few remaining living saints was proof to the world and the angelic realm that Christ had conquered both Death and Hades. He raised all the dead saints out of HADES, and prevented the living saints from dying and going to Hades. Thus the resurrection of the dead and the bodily change of the living stripped both DEATH and HADES of its victims and captives. That is why Apostle Paul taunts both DEATH and HADES right after he explained the resurrection and bodily change (1Cor 15:54-57).” (Ed Stevens, 2018 AD)
3. If the church restarted from scratch for a second time since Pentecost AD 33, such an event would surely be recorded in history.
a. Full-Preterists suggest that after Nero’s persecution of Christians, there were not many Christians left on the earth, so when they disappeared, nobody missed them.
Full-Preterist teaching that the population of Christians was too tiny to be
missed when they were “raptured away” is pure fiction without any historical or
4. Jesus ben Ananus provides a catastrophic refutation Full-Preterism that teaches all Christian were raptured at the “second coming” on 4th June AD 66 because Jesus was a common farmer who started preaching on 7th October AD 62 till he was stoned on 7th March AD 70 for a total of 7 years 5 months. (Josephus Wars 6:300)
a. To refute Full-Preterism, all you need is evidence that Christian baptized before the “second coming” lived afterwards.
II. Full-Preterists deny a post AD 70 Second Coming of Christ: Hebrews 9:27-28
1. Full-Preterism teaches the second coming of Jesus occurred shortly before AD 70 (4th June AD 66) when in fact, the second coming is still future!
a. The idea that the second coming of Christ happened on 4th June AD 66, represents one of the most recent theological developments in the history of the church and is false.
2. A major blow to Full-Preterists using Josephus’ 7th sign for the second coming, is that it corresponds to the beginning of the church/temple/kingdom, not the second coming!
a. As we have seen in the main Revelation 11 commentary, Josephus’ 7th sign occurred on Pentecost AD 65 NOT AD 66.
b. Full-Preterists also failed to notice that the best match of Josephus’ 7 signs with the second coming is the 6th sign, where the army of wheeled-cherubim are seen in the clouds surrounding the city of Jerusalem in the air symbolizing their “rapture” doctrine.
c. But if they switch to the 6th sign, it is still one year earlier and creates a new set of devastatingly contradictory problems for their theories.
d. Further, for Full-Preterists, Mt 26:64 is a perfect match with the 6th sign and has nothing in common with the 7th sign.
e. So not only did Full-Preterists make a fatal mistake in chronology by a whole year, they also chose the wrong sign from Josephus to represent the second coming.
f. The 7th sign of Josephus, where angels say “remove from here” refers to the destruction of the temple, ie. “remove the temple from here”, and has nothing to do with souls being raised from “beneath the altar”.
g. Finally, the alter of burn offerings is in the outer court but the voice “remove from here” was in the most holy place where the Ark of the Covenant was located. So the souls are located in one place and the voice “remove from here” came from a different place. Doesn’t fit!
a. The Full-Preterist doctrine of the invisible second coming in 70 AD is essentially identical to the Jehovah’s Witnesses “invisible second coming” in AD 1914.
b. Passages that say, “every eye shall see Christ” are limited by Full-Preterists to only the “eyes of Christians” who were raptured in 70AD.
4. John 13:33-14:6: “I will come again”
a. “Little children, I am with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, now I also say to you, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’ “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. “By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, where are You going?” Jesus answered, “Where I go, you cannot follow Me now; but you will follow later.” Peter said to Him, “Lord, why can I not follow You right now? I will lay down my life for You.” Jesus answered, “Will you lay down your life for Me? Truly, truly, I say to you, a rooster will not crow until you deny Me three times. “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. “In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. “If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. “And you know the way where I am going.” Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." (John 13:33–14:6)
b. This passage is probably the single most important second coming passages in the bible.
c. It says that Christians will follow Jesus to heaven, not at the ascension, but the second coming to live in the presence of the Father.
d. About the only rebuttal possible by Full-Preterists, is that this did happen in AD 70 or on 4th June AD 66 when all the Christians were raptured at the “second coming” and the rest of us just go directly to heaven. The problem with this is that is had the trademarks of the Jehovah’s Witnesses “two class system” of interpretation, where the saints alive at the time of Christ experience the fulfillment in a way that is VERY different from the rest living 2000 years later today. In the end, this view leaves Christians who lived after the “second coming” without any promises of resurrection, eternal life in heaven. The post rapture Christians have basically been “left behind” and only through secondary inference do they have any real hope. For Full-Preterists, the earth is an eternal, everlasting hatchery of new Christians who live in a physical world that coexists beside a spiritual world. This runs head first into the clear Bible doctrine that the earth will be “uncreated” at the second coming as Rev 20:11 says.
e. This passage, as it reads, speaks nothing of a two stage fulfillment of Christians and taken at face value clearly teaches a time when Christ returns when all Christians, at the last day that earth exists, will follow Christ to heaven forever.
5. "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after
this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins
of many, will appear a second time for salvation without
reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him" (Hebrews 9:27-28).
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III. Full-Preterists say no Bible books were written after AD 70: Jn 21:20-23
“Lord, and what about this man?” Jesus said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!” Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?”" (John 21:20-23)
1. John 21:20-23 proves the gospel of John was written after AD 70 because if all it meant is that John would live until the rapture in AD 66 and the destruction of Jerusalem one generation later, the disciples would never have fabricated the notion that John would be “an eternal” and live past the normal age of life. The rumour that went out among the brethren was unique to John, in spite of the fact that in AD 66 he was likely about 66 years old. The rumour was special to John because many of the young 20 year old disciples baptized in AD 50 also believed that John would even outlive them! The only way it makes sense is if John is very old, like 100 years old, having outlived all the other apostles. Obviously then, the rumour that John would never die began to be widely believed in AD 98 AND FOR GOOD REASON, or so they thought, when he wrote the Gospel of John. This perfectly explains why John felt the need to discuss this rumour about him when he wrote the Gospel of John in AD 98. Having outlived all the other apostles to the age of 100, this fact was the evidence all the Christians pointed to that John, unlike all other men, would live till the second coming as an “eternal”.
a. If the disciples believed and fully understood “true Full-Preterist doctrine” then they would never say “john will never die” by merely living past AD 66 at age 66 years old when “the Lord returned”. Many of the Christians alive in AD 33 were young enough to naturally, live past AD 70 but they were never said to be “eternals”. The fact that John’s case was a unique “one up” meant that they expected John to live well past 100 years of age which was an exception from the norm of all other men who would have died. As it is, John wrote his gospel in AD 98 and lived to be 100 years old, dying sometime after AD 100.
b. Even more devastating for Full-Preterists is to compare Peter’s statement that John would “not die” but live to witness the second coming of Christ, with Paul’s statement to the Thessalonians in 50/51 AD “we who are alive at the Lord’s Coming” (1 Thess 4:17). Therefore, many Christians in addition to John, (according to Full-Preterist thinking) would have expected to live as long as John to personally witness the second coming! When, Full-Preterists first read this statement, they are like a dead man standing but won’t know it until they meditate to come to full understanding of the problem this causes them. You can’t make this stuff up! It just doesn’t get any better than this! At first Full-Preterists will be in denial. Then after thoughtfully twitching in silent contemplation, will automatically be driven to either recant Full-Preterism or become dishonest. The Sadducees likewise began “thoughtfully twitching” when Jesus said those simple devastating words, “He is not the God of the Dead, but of the Living” to prove a bodily resurrection in Luke 20:37-38. They would not immediately comprehend how an argument based upon the present tense (God is, vs God was) proves there would be the very bodily resurrection they denied. The point was simple. When Jesus proved conscious life after death, “He IS the God of the Living” it must follow they will be raised bodily, just like the Pharisees correctly taught! Full-Preterist theology cannot explain how and why the rumour that John would live past the normal age of life (past 100 years old) but all the Christians who believed the rumour in AD 60 would die.
2. What this proves, is that the disciples saw John living way the normal age of life, past 100, as an eternal, when the second coming would happen. The apostles would all die and John would outlive them. Even the young, newly baptized disciples in AD 60 who believed the rumour, felt John would outlive even them!
a. Further, Full-Preterists date John to AD 60/61 and 2 Peter to June AD 64 and the Rapture to Pentecost AD 66. Although the original discussion in John 21 about John being and “eternal” happened in AD 33, the rumour still persisted in AD 61, in spite of the fact that Peter was not only still alive (according to Full-Preterists), but that both Peter and John would be martyred at the same time in the fall of AD 64!!!
b. Of course, when John is almost 100 years old and wrote the Gospel of John around AD 98, he likely was the last apostle alive of the 13 and therefore the rumour became widely believed and was becoming a problem that needed fixing. This is why John felt the need to quell the rumour, because he had outlived most of the apostles by close to 40 years. If John was written in AD 60/61 as Full-Preterists say, the rumour would still exist, but there would be no need for John to dispel the rumour because within 5 years ALL Christians on earth would be either dead or raptured. The crickets on this point are deafening.
3. The disciples obviously had no idea of “Full-Preterist doctrine” where they merely need to live one generation longer, 40 more years, to AD 70, till the second coming. This is clear from their statement at the ascension, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6) This however, cannot explain why they thought that John, contrary to the norm, would live forever, since in their mind, they were all agents who would usher in the coming Messiah, except Peter who Jesus said would die. So, the only way they would think John was an eternal BEFORE AD 70, is if they understood a second coming distinct from the destruction of Jerusalem.
4. But it gets worse for Full-Preterists because in the mind of the apostles at the ascension, the “1000 years of the Messiah on earth” were going to begin between Pentecost AD 33 and AD 70. We know this is what they were thinking because the Dead Sea Scrolls, ancient Jewish literary sources and the New Testament give us all the details. While they were wrong about all this, it does give us excellent in sight into the mind of Peter thought Jesus said John would live till Jesus returns. Full-Preterists are completely oblivious to the first century messianic expectation eschatology that teaches the Messiah will “come” between the years 4292-6000 after creation (5554 BC), then overthrow the Romans in a physical war and rule in Jerusalem for 1000 years, at the end of which, the earth will be destroyed after 7000 years. Therefore, we can prove that the disciples, in their mind, were expecting Jesus to return and reign on earth for 1000 years after John had lived past the normal age of life, 100 years into the future. They would all be dead, but the 1000 years of the messiah on earth would be witnessed by John personally. This “Days of the Messiah” eschatology was believed universally by all the Jews since 100 BC and was in the mind of the twelve disciples of Jesus when he first called them down to his ascension. This is devastating for Full-Preterists on many levels, but here again, it does not explain their idea that John would be an eternal, while all others die when John wrote revelation in AD 61. When you overlay the disciple’s mistaken messianic expectation at the ascension in Acts 1:6 over top of their mistaken “Days of Messiah” eschatology, the result is they were expecting Jesus to physically overthrow the Romans and begin reigning on earth for 1000 years after the second coming. The key is that Peter was told he would die before the messiah would overthrow Rome but John would live past the beginning of the days of the Messiah and therefore live forever! In other words, whether they thought the “Days of the Messiah (1000 years)” were going to begin shortly after Pentecost (AD 33) or 37 years later when the temple was destroyed (AD 70), in neither case would they view John’s living past these two dates as constituting “he will never die” because all Christians who were living at the same time as John would also “never die”.
5. So obviously then, Peter’s statement that John would never die cannot be explained with the modern Full-Preterist theology or the ancient Jewish “Days of the Messiah” eschatology.
6. The two key problems for Full-Preterists is that the misunderstanding persisted until John corrected it after in 61 AD when he wrote his gospel, AND that John was viewed as the only man on earth who was believed, by the rumour to live forever to see the second coming. Keep in mind Jesus clearly said “Jerusalem would be destroyed within one generation (40 years). It makes perfect sense when you realize the Gospel of John was written in AD 98.
7. John 21:20-23 is utterly devastating to Full-Preterists for another important reason they have completely missed. Notice that not only will John outlive Peter, but that Peter will die when he is old, which means Peter did not expect the coming of the Lord in his lifetime!!! Peter was likely only 70 in AD 70.
8. Finally, the truth. All this proves that the gospel of John was written after AD 70 and the “coming of the Lord” that John was going to see, was not the destruction of Jerusalem (a past event) but the still future second coming of Christ. The disciples wrongly understood in AD 98, when John wrote his gospel, that he would never die. Their expectation was that he would outlive everyone else well into the second century AD. This is the only way such a rumour makes any sense.
9. John 21:20-23, when properly expounded triggers a catastrophic collapse of Full-Preterism because it proves:
a. That the “coming of the Lord with clouds” had two distinct applications: AD 70 and the Second coming after that.
b. The Gospel of John was written after AD 70.
c. The Second coming of Christ was still expected after AD 70.
d. That Peter was aware of the “Lord come quickly” passages but did not expect to be alive, even in old age, for the second coming.
e. Peter understood that John was the only man on earth before AD 70 with a supernatural life expectancy that enabled him to see the second coming. John’s Natural life was 100 years of age in 100 AD. The disciples expected John to supernaturally outlive EVERYONE alive in AD 33 to see the second coming. There is nothing unique or unusual about John being alive in AD 70 because many others alive in AD 33 also lived past AD 70. Therefore the “coming of the Lord” the disciples believed John would experience as an “exceptional eternal” must be well past his natural life’s expectancy, after AD 70, well into the middle of the second century.
f. The elephant in the room, is that no one would equate living past AD 70 as uniquely remarkable for John alone, since children and most of the Christians alive in AD 30 would also live as long or longer than John.
g. Even if the
gospel of John was written in 60/61 AD, John was still universally believed at
this late date, to supernaturally outlive his own natural time of death. AD 70
was earlier than John’s natural life expectancy so the phrase, “he would not
die” can only mean that the disciples expected John to live long past AD 70 to
see the second coming of Christ.
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IV. Full-Preterism violates the justice principle of God: 2 Thess 1:5-10
1. "This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed." (2 Thessalonians 1:5-10)
2. There are two main branches of Full Preterism:
a. Collective Body View: Liberals who are both Annihilationist or Universalist
b. Individual Body View: Conservatives reject Universalism and believe in Eternal Conscious Punishment, citing Rev 22:14-15 as support.
c. Another serious problem for these Full-Preterist who deny Hell, is that they apply the JUSTICE when to those were merely killed in AD 70 in Jerusalem. Yet the Rebel leader, John of Giscala was merely arrested, paraded by Titus in Rome and lived out his natural life in jail. Where was his justice?
3. For those Full-Preterists who teach Annihilation at death, who deny any existence or consciousness after death, 2 Thess 1:5-10 presents the definitive refutation: The wicked dead who persecute Christians never get “repaid with affliction” from Jesus at the second coming. But being theologically liberal, none of this phases them since many of them are closet universalists.
4. For the conservative Full-Preterists who correctly believe in the Eternal conscious torment of the Wicked, this passage presents some serious problems. In their view, due justice is served to the wicked, it’s the timing that presents the problem.
a. If the passage was not so specific, Full-Preterists could suggest that the “affliction of the wicked” began to happen in AD 70 and thereafter when they die, all the way down to the present. Justice served.
b. The passage presents the justice as being still future and NOT YET SERVED in AD 52 when 2 Thessalonians was written. However, the rich man was “afflicted” in AD 33 and got his a portion of his due justice before AD 52 in Luke 16:22-23. It is obvious then that the justice served at the second coming is different from what the rich man experienced in Hades. Indeed, we find just this in Rev 20: "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:14) Notice that at the second coming, Hades ceases to exist! This means that for Full-Preterists when men die, they go directly to Hell. In other words, Full-Preterists agree with historic Christianity that the place called Hades will one day cease to exist when it is thrown into “the lake of Fire”, they just move the date forward 2000 years to AD 70.
5. The central problem for Full-Preterists is their interpretation makes mush of the specifics in the passage.
a. If this is specific to Jerusalem in AD 70 what about all the Christians who were martyred by Domitian etc.?
b. Justice violated, because the passage is absolutely silent on any later “repayment” to the wicked.
c. Such justice must be inferred indirectly and is not based upon any direct Bible passage.
d. Since the great judgment happened in AD 70, no bible verse speaks of a latter judgment.
e. So again Full-Preterists are caught in a dilemma of applying the fulfillment of every Bible passage in AD 70, while seeking for some scrap of inferential eschatology for those of us living today. Their hermeneutic is too ridged to allow for this.
V. Full-Preterists say there is no resurrection of the dead.
1. With no second coming for Christians living today, Full-Preterists teach that when individuals die, their spirit goes immediately to its eternal reward, a process that continues into future eternity with no general resurrection of all the dead.
2. 1 Corinthians 15:51-56; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18: Full-Preterists are unable to explain how or when the carnal bodies of those living today are “changed into immortal spirit bodies” or how any of these two verses give any hope to anyone living today.
a. "Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;" (1 Corinthians 15:51–56)
b. "But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Thessalonians 4:13–18)
c. Paul explicitly said that at the same time, the dead will be resurrected directly into their immortal spirit bodies and those living in carnal physical bodies will be CHANGED (not resurrected) into the same kind of immortal spirit bodies that the dead already were given. This body is conformed to the Divine body of Jesus Christ himself.
d. From a Full-Preterist point of view, the living NEVER experience the change from a living physical into a spirit body of any kind at all. They must die first, then their spirit is immediately translated into the spirit world into heaven. Paul says that those who are alive will NOT DIE but be immediately translated into spirit bodies.
e. Full-Preterists teach that every living person today MUST die to get to heaven, but Paul says that there will be those who are living that will experience the identical transformation of carnal to spiritual that the dead experience.
f. The result is a kind of circular reasoning between the two points of view.
g. The way to stop Full-Preterists in their tracks, therefore, is to point out that NONE of 1 Cor 15 or 1 Thess 4 speaks ANYTHING specific of what happens to us today. They are inferring that we who are alive today are included in the passage somehow, but that is simply not the case if Full-Preterism is correct.
h. Full-Preterists want to have their cake and eat it too! On one hand, they vociferously limit 1 cor 15 and 1 Thess 4 to ONLY those Christians alive in AD 70. On the other, they want to then include those alive today in these verses BECAUSE they have no other Bible verses they can use!
i. When Full-Preterists limit EVERY resurrection verse in the Bible to AD 70, they are without Bible authority (zero Bible verses) to determine the eschatological fate of themselves! For all they know, God may have simply abandoned planet earth and all who remain will be cast into hell! When you have no Bible verses, nobody knows, not even them!
3. Philippians 3:20-21: Paul said our “pre-death living body in our humble state” will be transformed into a spirit body:
a. "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself." (Philippians 3:20–21)
b. This echoes 1 Cor 15:51-52 which says that those living in carnal bodies will be “changed” into spirit bodies fashioned after the body of God himself in the spirit world.
c. Full-Preterists again simply cannot explain how any of this applies to us today, since the passage is speaking of an event that happened ONCE in AD 70.
4. John 11:23-25: Lazarus was a type of the resurrection on the last day.
a. "Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies," (John 11:23-25)
b. Clearly Martha was not thinking in terms of some ethereal nebulous resurrection in Jerusalem on AD 70. Mary is voicing standard well documented Jewish theology as witnessed in countless Dead Sea Scrolls that the last day was when the earth was 7000 years old. While this notion was wrong, it proves that she DID NOT view the “last day” as AD 70, since the Messiah, in her mind had to rule for 1000 years into the future, then the last day comes.
5. 1 Jn 3:4 “Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.”
a. For Full-Preterists, Christ’s “appearing” was the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.
b. Since he already appears, this verse provides no hope for those living today!
c. But since this applies to the second coming at the end of time when the world is uncreated, it makes perfect sense to every Christian who hoped for this day!
6. John 5:25-29: All the dead and living raised at same time.
a. “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the [physically living but spiritually dead] dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will [spiritually] live [eternal salvation]. “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. “Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs [both righteous and wicked literally dead] will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment." (John 5:25–29)
b. There is a two-part dichotomy (spiritual vs. physical) which prevents interpreting the second section as spiritual.
c. In the first section, the critical phrase is “an hour is coming and now is” who “hear his voice” which refers to those living on earth IN THE PRESENT who become Christians through faith and baptism. Yet this language must be applied by Full-Preterists to AD 70 if they want to be consistent. (And Full-Preterists have fits when OTHERS are not consistent.) In the second section, the critical phrase is “an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs” refers to a future time when ALL will “hear his voice”.
d. Full-Preterists have both the righteous and the wicked “raised to Life” in the first section, which contradicts the statement that they are NOT raised to life in the second, but judgement. Only Christians get LIFE. The Wicked get judgement.
e. What the passage does say, is that all the dead who ever lived from beginning to end of earth, will hear his voice and rise from the Dead but according to Full-Preterists, this is not a hope for those living after AD 70. We living today will never hear the Lord’s voice as per John 5.
f. Again the problem is that Full-Preterists limit this entire passage to those alive in AD 70.
7. Full-Preterists hold the same position as Sadducees who deny a bodily resurrection, and are VERY DIFFERENT from Pharisees.
a. Paul and Pharisees taught the same thing regarding the Resurrection:
i. "having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (Acts 24:15)
ii. Paul again sides with the theology of the Pharisees: "But perceiving that one group were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, “Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!” (Acts 23:6)
b. Paul’s unqualified statements about a resurrection of the good and evil before Roman governors, Pharisees and Sadducees must be taken at face value. Paul was saying, “My theology is the same as the Pharisees”.
c. If Full-Preterists sat down with both Pharisees and Sadducees, the Pharisees would stone them as heretics and the Sadducees would agree with Full-Preterists since no physical or bodily resurrection that anyone can detect, see or hear would be “close enough for them”.
d. What this means is that if Paul was a Full-Preterist, he was patently deceptive when he sided with the Pharisees in their view of the Resurrection. Remember, we know for certain from the Dead Sea Scrolls that the first century Jews believed in a universal resurrection of every person who ever lived, once the earth reached 7000 years of age, at which point the earth would be destroyed. The only variable in the view of Paul and the Pharisees was how long the earth would last, which in this discussion with Full-Preterists is irrelevant.
VI. The Full-Preterist view of how living bodies are changed into immortal:
1. The Full-Preterist position in their own words:
a. “1 Corinthians 15:51-54; 2 Corinthians 5:1-4; Philippians 3:21; and 1 John 3:2. … According to these four biblical texts, this change or transformation into “being like Him” had the following four characteristics: (1) it was a bodily change; (2) it was for living saints only (not for dead saints); (3) it was for individual saints only (not for a collective body); and (4) it occurred only at the Parousia, not before or afterwards. … The change spoken of in these four texts was an individual bodily change from mortal to immortal (without experiencing physical death), which occurred only to those saints who remained alive at the time of the Parousia.” (Fulfilled Magazine, Ed Stevens, spring 2014 AD)
b. “The dead would be raised out of Hades to receive their new bodies, while the bodies of the living saints would simply be changed from mortal to immortal. … those saints who remained alive at the time of the Parousia would not have to die and go to Hades, and then be raised back out of Hades to participate in the resurrection. Instead, they would have their mortal bodies changed into immortal bodies without having to experience physical death.” (IBV View of Bodily Change, Ed Stevens – Niagara Conference 2017)
2. Comment on the Full-Preterist view of how and when living Christians are changed into immortals:
a. So Full-Preterists take EXACTLY the same position as historical Christianity of what happens to the body of all the saints at the future second coming, except they limit it only those Christians living in AD 70. This echoes how Jehovah’s Witnesses teach their two class system where 144,000 go to heaven just like historical Christianity teaches, but all the rest who go door to door get stuck on the “paradise earth” forever and never go to live in heaven where the 144,000 are. Every passage you present to them to prove all Christians go to heaven, they dodge, by saying, “Oh, that passage only applies to the “faithful and discrete, servant/governing class” of Jehovah’s witnesses who were alive at the inviable second coming of Christ in AD 1914.”
b. Full-Preterists and JW’s interpret the same passages in the same way as historic Christianity, they just limit it to a small separate class of Christians. While their definitions of the class dichotomy differs, both limit the same passages the same way!
c. Full-Preterists teach that the entire living church in AD 70 were raptured like Enoch directly into heaven and just disappeared from the earth… exactly like the fictional movie, “Left Behind”, except it happened in AD 70 so no airplane crashed when the pilots disappeared.
d. The problem again, is that by limiting these passages to those alive
in AD 66 or 70, they cannot use these passages to explain the future
eschatological hope of those living today! In other words, in forcing the
fulfillment in the first century, they automatically and logically must exclude
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VII. Marriage Abolished after AD 70 for Full-Preterists:
1. "Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection." (Luke 20:34–36)
2. Jesus refuted the Sadducees, who did not believe in a resurrection of any kind: Luke 20:34-35.
a. In “that post resurrection age” marriage does not exist because there are no longer male or female to get married… like the angels.
b. “Those who attain to that age do not marry” Jesus said.
3. Again, Full-Preterists must split things into two worlds:
a. Both ages happen AT THE SAME TIME, SIDE BY SIDE: “the sons of this age” vs. “the sons of that age” co-exists after AD 70 but not before.
b. “the sons of this age” never comes to and end. This is an eternal unending age! Marriage and death will continue on earth forever into future eternity.
c. If death continues exactly the same way from Genesis to future eternity, death is NOT defeated. "But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”" (1 Corinthians 15:54-55)
4. The problem is that “attain to that age” infers a “special future time period”.
a. A contradiction is created for Full-Preterists because both the “present and future ages” running concurrently after AD 70.
b. That pesky
little word “age” messes Full-Preterists all up. If only Jesus had stayed on
topic only used the word resurrection and said nothing about “ages”, then
preterists would have no problem here.
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VIII Communion is extinct for Full-Preterists:
1. "For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. (1 Corinthians 11:26–26)
a. If Christ “came” in AD 70, as Full-Preterists say, then the Lord’s supper is abolished because we were to have communion every Sunday ONLY “till he comes”.
b. Full-Preterists will say quietly say with their eyes looking down, “It’s still OK to partake, but not necessary”.
2. Acts 20:7 is utterly devastating to Full-Preterists for two reasons:
a. "On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight." (Acts 20:7)
b. First, Christians came together in the first century for the SPECIFIC purpose of Communion! If the Lord’s supper is abolished, then there is no need to even assemble.
c. Second, the frequency patter of the assembly as “weekly” is logically identical to the frequency Christians partake of communion. While this point is lost among most denominations today who have no concept of following the Bible Blueprint, members of the Lord’s body understand immediately that if communion is abolished, so is the weekly assembly.
3. Jehovah’s Witnesses face the same dilemma since they teach only the 144,000 can partake of the Lord’s Supper. At their annual conferences it is humorous to watch all 5000 in attendance just pass the emblems to the next person without partaking… because no one is alive in the audience that is part of the 144,000 in 2018 AD.
4. Full-Preterists need to come to grips with the logical and unavoidable consequences and admit that they will never have communion again!
5. Once again, Full-Preterists are deconstructing every key element of New Testament Christianity and in time will be left with nothing.
a. They have no bible verses that give those living today a future eschatological hope because 100% of those Bible passages were 100% fulfilled in AD 70.
b. Now they have done away with the weekly memorial of the Lord’s Death.
IX Full-Preterists say the physical world will last forever:
1. Full-Preterists take the same theological position that the world will never be destroyed, as Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians and John Hagee teaches.
2. In fact, the 113 elements of the periodic table were created in 5554 BC in Gen 1:1 and will be uncreated at the future second coming.
3. Revelation 20:11: "Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them." (Revelation 20:11)
a. Full-Preterists apply the invisible second coming and invisible Judgement to AD 70 and view “heaven and earth” to be simple earth rulers.
b. But the text speaks for itself and is a delightfully simplistic proof text for the fact that the world will be UNCREATED.
4. Hebrews 1:10–12: "And, “You, Lord [Jesus], in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Your hands; They will perish, but You remain; And they all will become old like a garment, And like a mantle You will roll them up; Like a garment they will also be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end.”" (Hebrews 1:10–12)
a. Hebrews 1:10 presents a series of insurmountable barriers to Preterism where Jesus is specifically assigned the function of creation in Gen 1:1. The Father supplied the blueprints and Jesus was the creator of the physical heavens and earth.
b. There is a dichotomy between Jesus and His creation:
i. In the beginning he created them and at the end of time he will uncreate them.
ii. Jesus will remain, but the physical universe will be removed.
iii. Creation will get old and in need of replacing with a new creation, but Jesus stays the same forever.
iv. It will come to an end but Jesus will remain and “outlive” it.
c. For Full-Preterists to equate “Jesus Laid the foundation of the earth” with human kings is absurdity gone to seed.
5. "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells." (2 Peter 3:10–13)
a. Full-Preterists take the identical view as Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians and John Hagee who say the earth will last forever. They equate heavens and elements with rulers who are destroyed in the burning of Jerusalem.
b. The problem for Full-Preterists, is that as Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians and John Hagee all believe in a future second coming but they themselves, do not. Therefore, all this happened in AD 70 AND ONLY TO THE CITY OF JERUSALEM. What about all the rulers in Rome who were unaffected.
c. Further, a significant number of key Jewish rulers fled outside Jerusalem before it was destroyed, including Masada which was destroyed in 74 AD.
d. When Full-Preterists spiritualize the fire then we are back once again to an invisible event that no one saw.
X Full-Preterists say the Judgement started in AD 70 and is forever continuous unending
1. The fundamental problem for Full-Preterists, is that they have zero Bible authority for any kind of continuous judgment.
a. According to Full-Preterists, the great Judgement of Old and New Testament prophecy is a past event. Done. Kaputski. Auravoirski!
b. They MUST infer, without any Bible passages to back them up, that AFTER the Judgement is 100% eschatologically fulfilled in AD 70, all men who die thereafter will also be judged.
c. There is not a bible verse that teaches ANY SUCH THING.
2. Quoting in part, Isaiah 45:23: "But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall give praise to God.” So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God." (Romans 14:10–12)
a. The Great Judgement at the end of time has always been connected with every knee bowing to God.
3. In Phil 2:10-11 Full-Preterists are forced into viewing this judgement where “every knee will bow” as a continuous event forever and ever into the future.
a. "For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:9-11)
b. While this passage doesn’t specifically say when every knee will bow, we know from Romans 14:10 it happens all at one time during the great judgement.
4. If judgement takes place in AD 70, then all the men born centuries later will NOT be judged or bow their knee.
a. While some Full-Preterists are unphased by these glaring incongruities, others say the knee bowing merely began in AD 70 and continues forever into the future unending.
b. Notice they switch horses from “Judgement in AD 70” to an ongoing continuous judgement, when they feel so inclined- like reeds blown in the wind.
5. If the final judgment has already taken place, then there is nothing more to be done for either the saved or the lost, for the sheep have already been separated from the goats to their eternal destiny according to Matthew 25:46. Full-Preterists must argue BY INFERENCE and WITHOUT ANY BIBLE SUPPORT, that this sorting first took place in AD 70, after which, when people die, judgement is automatic and they are sent directly to heaven or hell. This entire idea is 100% foreign to Bible eschatology but they MUST find a way to infer it.
6. On the other end of the scale, Preterists also say that no one got to be with the Lord UNTIL AD 66-70.
a. This directly contracts Paul who said in 60 AD that he “desired to die and be with Christ, for that is very much better." (Philippians 1:23)
b. For non-Full-Preterists it poses no problems, but for Full-Preterists nobody is supposed to be with the Lord until AFTER AD 70.
c. Clearly, when Paul died in AD 66-67 (AD 64 for Full-Preterists) he knew he would immediately be with the Lord.
7. Paul therefore, CANNOT be a FULL-PRETERIST because then Phil 1:23 would read:
"But I am NOT hard-pressed from both directions.
No one would desire to die and WAIT IN LIMBO UNTIL THE RAPTURE in AD 66, AFTER
THAT, THEN be with Christ. In this case, I would rather actually keep living on
earth. Dying and waiting for life, certainly is not better than living now. Therefore,
I Paul tell you, as any Full-Preterist will tell you, that until the Rapture in
AD 66, it is better to remain on in the flesh, than to die and
wait to be with Christ, especially since it is more necessary for your sake."
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XI. Full-Preterists say the Law of Moses not abolished until AD 70:
1. Full-Preterism teaches that the Law of Moses was in full force until AD 70.
a. Apparently unaware of how to correctly interpret a simple passage like Mt 5:17, and directly borrowing the argument from the Seventh-day Adventists, Full-Preterists misuse it as their proof text.
b. “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away [in AD 70], not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." (Matthew 5:17-18)
c. The SDA’s misuse Mt 5:17 to keep the Ten Commandments, especially the Sabbath, while allowing for the ceremonial portion to be abolished at the cross. (An illogical and defendable position, since the entire Law of Moses, including the Ten commandments, and yes, their beloved weekly Sabbath day (Col 2:14-17) was nailed to the cross and abolished by Christ in AD 33)
d. The Full-Preterists misuse Mt 5:17 worse than the Ellen G. White because they keep the entire Law of Moses, Sabbath, Ten commandments, Temple worship and Animal sacrifices as a code of Law until AD 70. (While more consistent than the SDA’s, it creates enormous contradictions in New Testament theology.)
2. Full-Preterists contradict Romans 7:1-7:
a. "Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man. Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”" (Romans 7:1–7)
b. First, Romans was written early AD 55 and Paul is talking to Jews who knew the Law!
c. Second, Romans 7:2-3 begins with an illustration: A woman cannot be married to two men at the same time or else she will be called an adulteress.
d. Third, Romans 7:4 makes the application: The Law of Moses and the Law of Christ cannot be in force at the same time or else it is spiritual adultery. The Law of Moses is abolished, so we can be joined to Christ’s law.
e. Fourth, Romans 7:5-6 says that the Law of Moses is dead, allowing the wife (the church) to be married to a new man: Christ.
f. Fifth, Romans 7:7 specifically identifies the 10 Commandments (covet) as the code of law that is dead and abolished!
g. Full-Preterists contradict all this and say both laws were in force in God’s eyes until AD 70.
3. From the author’s debate notes with a Sabbatarian:
a. “Simply stated, the passage says that Jesus came to fulfill the whole law (moral and ceremonial) and that none of the law, including the weekly Sabbath would be abolished until someone fulfilled it. Jesus fulfilled it and the entire law, including 10 commandments and weekly sabbath, were abolished. Full-Preterists, like Adventists seem to be unaware that Jesus fulfilled the whole law then abolished it!” Read details on Mt 5:17.
b. Most members of the Lord’s body know how to correctly interpret Mt 5:17.
c. For specific details on how the entire law of Moses was abolished in 3 April AD 33 (cross) including all Ten commandments: click here.
XII. Full-Preterists ignore the kingdom of prophecy was fully established on Pentecost AD 33
1. The Old Testament kingdom of prophecy is the New Testament church which is the 5th kingdom Daniel saw in 2:44.
2. Prophecies of the “church/kingdom” in Isa 2:1-4; Dan 2:44; Dan 9:24-29; Joel 2:28; Mark 9:1; Luke 24:49; Acts 1:8 are fulfilled in Acts 2:1-4 as evidenced by Acts 2:16; Col 1:13, Heb 12:28 and Rev 1:6-9.
3. Jesus said to the High priest, who we know for certain died long before AD 70: "Jesus said to him, “You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”" (Matthew 26:64) This can only apply to Pentecost and not AD 70 because the High Priest had been dead for 30 years.
Again, while members of the Lord’s church are generally
fluent in this doctrine, Full-Preterists find their greatest successes with
denominationalists, futurists and premillennialists who lack the training of
seeking Bible authority for everything and do not view the Bible as a blueprint
that must be followed exactly.
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XIII. Full-Preterists misinterpret the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-29
1. DANIEL 9 FULFILLED: Jesus the Messiah rose from the dead 490 solar years to the very day Artaxerxes issued his decree:
a. The decree to rebuild Jerusalem in Ezra 7:7-26 records Ezra departing Babylon for Jerusalem on 1st Nisan (first month in Jewish Calendar) in the 7th year of Artaxerxes in 458 BC which translates to 8 April 458 BC (Julian calendar) and to 3th April 458 BC (Solar/Gregorian Calendar).
b. The resurrection of Jesus was on 16th Nisan AD 33 (Jewish Calendar) which translates to 5 April AD 33 (Julian calendar) and to 3rd April AD (Solar/Gregorian Calendar).
c. The solar calendar (Gregorian Calendar) is God’s Calendar for a year because it is the exact time it takes the earth to orbit the Sun.
d. Today we use the Gregorian Calendar which requires leap years to keep it in sync with God’s solar calendar. The 490 years of Daniel’s 70 weeks is exactly 490 solar years to the very day.
2. The 70 weeks of Daniel, was one of two texts that ushered in the Messianic fever from 49 BC to AD 33.
a. Jews at the time of Christ universally interpreted the ending of the last of 70 weeks around AD 33.
b. Daniel 9:24-27 was a major irritant to the non-believing Jews who rejected Christ because it had been universally interpreted as a messianic prophecy for the messiah to come in AD 33 AND the Christians pointed this out as proof on a regular basis.
a. Josephus said: “But now, what did most elevate them in undertaking this war, was an ambiguous oracle (Dan 9:24) that was also found in their sacred writings, how, “about that time, one from their country should become governor of the habitable earth.” (313) The Jews took this prediction to belong to themselves in particular and many of the wise men were thereby deceived in their determination. Now, this oracle certainly denoted the government of Vespasian, who was appointed emperor in Judea.” (Josephus Wars 6.312–313)
b. Josephus downplays the passage by calling it “ambiguous”. Whereas all the Jews before the birth of Christ viewed Dan 9:24 as a messianic prophecy, Josephus paved the way for all Jews after him to remove any messianic notion from Daniel’s 70 weeks.
c. Josephus says that Roman Caesar Vespasian (69-79 AD) was the object at the end of the 70 weeks of Daniel. No connection is made with the messiah in any way. Josephus equated the “anointed man” with Vespasian (at the hands of Titus) in AD 70. Keep in mind that Josephus was under hire by the Romans as their “official war historian”. Making Vespasian the “anointed” of Dan 9:27 would flatter his boss, and given no other options, chose to reinterpret the prophecy in a non-messianic way. As a Jew, Josephus was also more than delighted to disconnect the passage from its historic fulfillment in AD 33.
4. 160 AD: Seder Olam 100% redefines the 70 weeks of Daniel in the most anti-Christian way possible:
a. Seder Olam sought to disconnect Jesus Christ from the fulfillment of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24. The Jews changed both the start and end stop dates of Daniel’s prophecy of 70 weeks. The Jews changed the start/stop dates from “the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the Messiah”, to “the period between destructions of the first and second temple”. The actual period between the destruction of the two temples is 587 BC + AD 70 = 657 years not 490 years. Seder Olam must erase 167 of their own Jewish History to make the 70 weeks of Daniel fit their new, non-biblical interpretation. The Jews reduced the Persian Kingdom from 205 years down to a ridiculous 52 years (actual is 539-333 BC) in order to disconnect the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27. Their goal was to disconnect the year Jesus was crucified in AD 33, which otherwise was a perfect fit. All Jews today believe Seder Olam is the truth, when it is a lie, a fabrication and a fiction that directly contradicts the Jewish Hebrew Torah in regard to Daniels prophecy in Dan 9:24.
b. The Jews at Zippori in 160 AD even corrupted the Masoretic text of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 in order to disconnect Jesus of Nazareth from the prophecy. The original is preserved in the Septuagint, Codex Sinaiticus.
c. Full-Preterists are unaware that the view they have adopted, namely that the 70 weeks (490 years) of Daniel ended in AD 70, came from Josephus and revisionist anti-Christian Jews in the Seder Olam Rabbah in 160 AD.
d. In other words, Full-Preterists have unknowingly borrowed their view of Daniel 9 from a deliberate, anti-Christian interpretation put forth by Jews who constructed the theology for the express purpose of disconnecting Jesus Christ from its fulfillment in AD 33.
5. Correctly dating the end point of Daniel’s 70 weeks, to the resurrection of Christ is a devastating refutation of the core theology of Full-Preterism.
a. Once they see its perfect fulfillment of 490 solar years TO THE EXACT DAY, it should be obvious there is no need for gaps.
b. Premillennialists, Pre-tribulation Rapturists, dispensationalists all introduce huge 2000 year pauses or gaps into the time prophecy.
c. Anyone who adds gaps, stops the clock for any time prophecy immediately render themselves irrelevant in Bible hermeneutics.
d. Clearly, no one in the first century ever viewed any time prophecy where the clock stops!
e. When bible interpreters add pauses to TIME PROPHECIES, it is a huge red flag they have no idea what they are talking about.
f. Pauses in time prophecies make them fail!
g. But there is no need in Daniel 9:25-29 for any stopped clocks, pauses or gaps because 458 BC to AD 33 is precisely 490 years.
For a full discussion on the Jewish interpretation of
Daniel’s 70 weeks ending around AD 33, click here.
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XIV. Full-Preterists do not believe in the devil today because he was thrown into hell on 4th June AD 66.
1. Full-preterists believe the Devil was destroyed 4th June AD 66 at the second coming and great judgement.
a. “Liberal” minded Full-preterists believe the devil, along with the wicked men, experience annihilation and become non-existent like Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christadelphians.
b. “Conservative” minded Full-preterists believe the devil, along with the wicked are experiencing eternal conscious torment since 4th June AD 66 when Rev 20:10 was fulfilled: "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Revelation 20:10)
2. Unlike Christadelphians who deny the Personality of both the Holy Spirit and the Devil are metaphors for God’s power and sin, full-Preterist believe the Devil was a created personal being and the Holy Spirit is God. The difference is that Full-preterists say that while the Devil had been a spiritual factor on the earth for mankind, now he has been removed and no longer has any influence, being in Hell.
3. Full-Preterists teach the Devil no longer “prowls like a lion” (1 Pe 5:8).
a. The book of Revelation was written in 62 AD.
b. The Devil was cast down to earth in Rev 12 as a primary cause behind the great persecution of Nero and before he was thrown into Hell on 4th June AD 66.
c. The Devil began “prowling like a lion” just before Nero’s persecution but not today. "Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." (1 Peter 5:8)
4. Full-Preterists finally strip Christianity today even of the Devil, which makes the Devil very happy because as any lion knows, dinner is served when the prey thinks you are not near.
1. The “Preterist Pocket Bible” is small indeed because they have removed all bible passage fulfilled in AD 70 and removed all passages that apply only to Christians in AD 70. What is left of their Bible are only those passages that apply to Christians living today. This greatly simplifies things today for Full-Preterists:
a. REMOVED: All Salvation passages (Salvation occurred in AD 70)
b. REMOVED: All second coming passages
c. REMOVED: All judgement passages
d. REMOVED: All Lord’s Supper passages
e. REMOVED: All resurrection passages
f. REMOVED: All marriage passages
g. REMOVED: All heaven and earth destroyed passages
h. REMOVED: All New heavens and earth passages
i. REMOVED: All hell passages
j. REMOVED: All old Testament abolished at the cross passages
k. REMOVED: All kingdom established on AD 33 passages
l. REMOVED: All of Daniel 9:24-29 because they stop the clock of the time prophecy
m. REMOVED: All Devil and Demon passages
2. Next time you meet a Full-Preterist tell him politely, “Please give me my whole Bible back”!
Steven Rudd Feb 2018
DOWNLOAD: FREE PDF
Preface: Completely understand Revelation in 5 minutes
Intro 1: Ezekiel Decodes Revelation
Dating and Chronology
Daniel and Revelation
By Steven Rudd, Feb 2018: Contact the author for comments, input or corrections
By Steve Rudd 2018: Contact the author for comments, input or corrections.